Horseman’s Corner Radio

Now here's the late Howard Hale with Cal Middleton asking him a question on safety around horses.

 

Cal Middleton is a horseman and clinician from Missouri. What do you need to do to be safe around a horse, Cal?

 

"The truth is if we want to be safe on a horse or around a horse, our first goal needs to be to make the horse feel safe. Because when the horse feels safe, we're on the right track. It doesn't mean that we just pet him and feed him cookies all the time. There's a lot of things we have to do. We have to be a little more firm when necessary, but we have to be as light as possible, and we have to care about the horse. And if we don't care about the horse, then we're better off to get a four-wheeler. That's kind of where it's got to start for me. Talk about some of the steps you need to take to make that horse feel safe, will you? Number one, it's the way we approach him, and that's physically and mentally. It's the way we approach him literally, and the way we approach him in a philosophical sense. The way we grab a hold of that lead rope, the way we put the halter on him, the way we put the bridle on him, and the way that we pick up the reins, you know, the way we saddle him. All those things come into play. It's something that I enjoy teaching to people, but it's not something that I can just explain to them real quick."

 

"Sometimes people will send me a question on an email like, my horse is doing this, what do I do? And I say, well, make him feel safer, and here's a few steps how, but it's something that you can't just pick up on a little weekend course or a little book, or a DVD."

Here's Ron Knodle and the late Howard Hale. 

 

What are some of the differences you run into, though, with the Mustangs that you might not see with a domestic horse? 

 

"About the only difference, Howard, is the first few days, or the first few workings that you're around the Mustang. They're brought in out of the wild, and they're not used to seeing a human, but maybe for a mile or two miles away, and they're gone."

 

"You're just working with a lot more alertness and wildness, per se, compared to the domestic horse. Even if you're just walking through a pen when they're young, or even if they're born and brought in, just walking through them, then the Mustangs don't have that opportunity to be that close to a human, so that's about the main difference on the Mustangs. They may be a little more alert at first, but after a few workings, then they're the same as any other horse."

 

"I think it was about 20 years ago, over in western Nebraska, I was working for a fellow working horses and riding them without anything on their heads and all and whatnot, but growing up and I always wanted to be a cowboy, and working on ranches, and of course all the ranches need horses started, and they kind of reserve that for the people that's good enough to start with those young horses, not get them bothered and turn them into a bunch of bronc. Your reputation is about all you have in life, and it precedes you, so from ranch to ranch, and people asking for references, they say, hey, get this guy to start your colt, and once you get started on the colt, it's kind of tough to get away from them."

 

Mr. Ron Knodle on today's Horseman's Corner.

 

Now here's an archived interview with the late Howard Hale and Brian Neubert, Altruist, California horseman and trainer. Howard had just asked him about what he learned from working with Mustangs.

 

"Thinking about becoming more efficient all the time so I can get more done with less effort. And, oh, they sent me all over the country and quite a bit to Texas and you went to Florida and all over the western states and Nebraska quite a few times. But they, you know, it was kind of fun to get paid to educate yourself and trying to think constantly how I can get more accomplished with less effort and anyway I had a lot of fun with that. And really kind of learned, with what I learned with those wild horses, apply to just anything you're doing. Loading one in the trailer or handling their feeder, getting them to change leads or anything. I had a lot of fun with that actually."

 

Is it more of a challenge to try to teach people or to teach those wild horses? 

 

"It's always way tougher to teach people."

 

That was Altruist California trainer and horseman, Brian Neubert with the late Howard Hale. 

We're talking to Ramzi Hughes, Anchor Brand Ranch. I wanted to ask you about your philosophy of working with horses.

 

"What we do, I kind of narrow my favorite breeds down to the American Quarter Horse and a regular old Mustang. That's kind of a mixture of what we've got. Those Mustangs are tough and they go like crazy and the kids can break them and ride them and use them for ranch horses, but they are not the athlete that an American Quarter Horse is when it comes to the rodeo events and team roping that we like to do in the arenas."

 

"So everything's got its place, and we like our American Quarter Horse for our team roping and our rodeo events, and then for some of the ranch work, these kids sure have fun and do good on some of them hard-footed Mustangs. The Mustangs don't really stand up against the Quarter Horses. Not when it comes to athletic ability, speed, sliding, stopping, they just don't. They might walk faster, like out on the ranch, they walk faster and be a little more sure-footed in the rocks, but just to be honest and realistic, and we've tested it out, they just are not the athlete in the arena. They don't have the start and go and stop speed. Each has its place."

 

That was Ramzi Hughes from Anchor Brand Ranch with our co-host David Woodruff. 

Today, a special treat from the archives of the late Howard Hale.

 

Our guest today is Justin Dunn. He's a Colorado horseman (now training out of North Carolina). Give us some of your background and how you got started, will you, Justin? 

 

"Started with training other people's horses and found that I had a knack for it. Got into taking people on trail rides down there in South Texas, and then decided to move to Colorado and start a trail ride business here. And on a shoestring budget, couldn't afford a lot of already trained horses. So I got a lot of buckers, biters, bolters, and kickers for free, and started training them and using them in my trail ride business. That just kind of kicked it off."

 

So you get some of those problem horses to the point where you could use them as trail riding horses for some of the folks? 

 

"Yeah, I have a string of 14 horses, and all of them are either BLM Mustangs or rescue horses or, you know, rejected horses for whatever reason. I take them in, train them, put them in my trail ride business, and we also do a camp for children with cancer, and all my horses are in that too."

 

Are the Mustangs easier than the problem horses? 

 

"They're probably the easiest horses I've ever trained. I have six of them myself, and I've trained probably 25, 30 other brand new Mustangs. So yeah, they're probably the easiest horse I've ever trained."

 

Justin Dunn on training Mustangs. 

 

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Justin Dunn is a nationally recognized horse trainer and clinician who specializes in working with American Mustangs and rehabilitating horses with behavioral issues. Rather than focusing on traditional Quarter Horse training, his non-traditional approach is distinguished by training entirely without bits, spurs, whips, or horseshoes.

American Mustang School: He is the founder of the American Mustang School, which focuses on gentle, natural horsemanship and educating owners on horse psychology. 

Is the saddle an important piece of the equation when it comes to overall horsemanship, Van?

 

"Yes sir, what I'm looking for in a saddle of course, you hit the nail right on the head and I want to find a top quality saddle made by a very reputable and very top quality saddle manufacturer. And the reason why is that they're generally going to work a little bit harder with the saddle tree manufacturers to make sure that all points of that saddle to be even. In other words, it's like everything else and you've got to start with a great foundation. That saddle tree is the absolute most important thing there. After that we want to make sure we're using top quality materials. The best leather possible, those are things I look for. But really what I'm looking for outside of those things, I'm looking for something that fits my task. I really have to ask myself, what am I going to be doing in my horse the most? If all I do is race, barrels and the barrel racer, then by God it might just pay for me to go find me a barrel race in the saddle as opposed to a cut and saddle. So I want to match the saddle to the task that suits my need."

Here's horse trainer Becky Amio on saddle fit.

 

"What I was finding is I was struggling with saddle fit, and I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I was having a hard time with saddles going up Colt's neck, and I was also having a problem with side-to-side slip, and then I was having a problem with the seat itself on the saddle that I had been using for many years was putting me in a position that was too wide, so the access point where I could get a good hold with my legs around the barrel of the horse, it wasn't conducive to be able to support myself and support the horse. I called several different saddle makers, and a lot of them honestly didn't give me good answers or didn't want to answer my questions, and I ended up finding a saddle pad designer that helped answer my questions discussing saddle fit, because she showed me how to shim the saddle or the saddle pad to fit the saddle properly."

 

"From there, she directed me to a man named Mark Jones out of Georgia, and Mark was the first person to listen to me when I discussed all of the problems that I was having. I would say 98% of the saddle manufacturers out there, their general average bar spread is 13 1⁄2 inches, and that is too wide for these young Colts. That's why I was having a problem going up their neck like I was."

 

More from Becky Amio on our longer version of the Horseman's Corner Extended Podcast, all on horsemanscorner.com.